Welcome to Dj0zMaps

Home of all my Starcraft and Warcraft maps
 
HomePortalFAQSearchRegisterLog in
--- Halted mapping. ---

Share | 
 

 Human Defenders

Go down 

What to do?
Make the defenders weaker!
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Add more damage to the colossi!
50%
 50% [ 1 ]
Don't do anything, it's fine.
50%
 50% [ 1 ]
Decrease damage of the colossi, they kill too fast!
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 2
 

AuthorMessage
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Human Defenders   Sat May 09, 2009 1:07 am

If you hadn't noticed, a colossus kills a human hero with like 7 hits. And that might be too much since the colossus is 5 times bigger than the human. He can probably smash him with 1 hit.
You have 25 days!


Last edited by Burning_Iegion on Sat May 09, 2009 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Sat May 09, 2009 1:09 am

I choose the second option since I noticed that green giants can also take like 5 hits from the colossi.
And being a giant doesn't mean you can't get smashed by something x times bigger than you.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Mon May 11, 2009 10:20 am

Omg why isn't anyone voting???
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Cassus
Chaos Colossus Helper (Fireball class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Fireball class)


Posts : 29
Join date : 2009-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Mon May 11, 2009 10:44 am

The thing you have to realize is that yes, something the size of a Colossi could kill many creatures in a single blow, but so could dragons and even people with swords (i.e. footmen). The HP/damage system that allows creatures to survive multiple hits is based on the idea that in a "real world" not all of those hits would be connecting fully.

Additionally, have you seen the damage that even someone only reasonably good with Colossi can do using their skills?! Between spheres and all their jumping around/summoning (not to mention evolved spells), the actual attacks are kind've secondary. All in all the current map balance seems to favor Colossi/KJ more than anything else.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Mon May 11, 2009 11:06 am

Meh.
He might miss most of the times?
Well Dj could add evasion to some units (hope so) for that, but the colossus should be able to smash humans with 1 hit which would be unfair so better be with 3 hits lol... or 5?
And about the colossi/KJ are stronger - rofl
It's even the opposite!
Don't you remember when you and 4 colossi (you were KJ) fought me (I was alone defender) and hardly won?
The only reason for that win was that there was no Well and no one could defend another pillar.
But trust me, a Defender can be far stronger than a colossus if he knows what to do.


Last edited by Burning_Iegion on Mon May 11, 2009 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Mon May 11, 2009 11:07 am

Though KJ really is a bit op atm. You used holocaust on my base and destroyed it rofl.
It should really be weakened or atleast mana cost should be upped with a high amount.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Cassus
Chaos Colossus Helper (Fireball class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Fireball class)


Posts : 29
Join date : 2009-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Mon May 11, 2009 11:32 am

Burning_Iegion wrote:
Meh.
He might miss most of the times?
Well Dj could add evasion to some units (hope so) for that, but the colossus should be able to smash humans with 1 hit which would be unfair so better be with 3 hits lol... or 5?
I'm not suggesting adding evasion; that makes it too random. It's just a fact of most RTS engines that being hit be something (say, a mortar shell) that should be fatal is survivable because the system doesn't do justice to the possibility of evasion. The number of hits it takes now seems fairly balanced, though I don't know much about the non-builder units.

Quote :
And about the colossi/KJ are stronger - rofl
It's even the opposite!
Don't you remember when you and 4 colossi (you were KJ) fought me (I was alone defender) and hardly won?
The only reason for that win was that there was no Well and no one could defend another pillar.
But trust me, a Defender can be far stronger than a colossus if he knows what to do.

The only reason that was difficult was because the Colossi didn't know what to do-- I killed all four inner pillars and most of the outer as well by myself. I mean, come-- they barely used Rain, I never saw a Sphere cast... At least one of them couldn't even find the Evolution menu. Note how I said above "reasonably good"-- someone who has no idea on how to play the game will struggle.
And really, KJ is already weaker than the Colossi by far. Rather than nerfing him, I think Dj said he was going to buff him a bit and rework the Well to compensate (that last is definitely overdue).


Oh, and on holocaust-- it currently takes 1000 mana, 33% of maximum, making it cost almost twice as much as a fully powered Finger of Death... What would "a large amount" be?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dj0z
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 926
Join date : 2008-05-27

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Mon May 11, 2009 2:29 pm

_I plan to rebalance the defenders a little, reducing their maximum troop amount (or making them weaker), reducing the defender hero's hp, but givin him mch more more power in the form of holy abilites and dirty tricks.


_About the who is stronger debate: at the very start of the gae, defenders are definitely stronger, because they can already spawn (from at least 2 portals) crowds of melee and/or ranged units, without any real costs (atm. yea it's my bad) while the Colossi can hardly summon a half dozen units asap, and their income doesnt allow them yet to maintain this summoning effort.
Besides, they have just 1 or 2 levels to skill stomp (if they didn't, well, usually they died :/ ) and not enough aoe damage to face the crowds of unending-free-rushing human units.
Heck, pro humans can even have their enemy Colossus surrounded during the intro scene, read right when they arrive lol.

The only reasons why this abuse is almost never noticed are:
-humans newcomers take alot more time to get the grasp of the game
-they fear being crushed like beetles in 1 hit, and they don't know yet how slow the Colossi are
-pro humans don't do that because they're not gay
-Burn doesn't play defenders much :> (last but not least LOL) and neither do i.


_KJ's holocaust is abit strong, yea, but since he doesnt have (yet) all the destructive features he should already have, i use it as a balancing factor.
_About the Well, let's not even waste time talking, it's getting a total facelift the next time i update CC.

_________________

The bot's name is: TealHaze
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dj0zmaps.goodforum.net
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Mon May 11, 2009 10:12 pm

Dear Cassus... How can a colossus know what and how to do when he can't even get close to the pillar?
And how is Kil balanced when he can solo a human base?
The amount I suggest is hmm... 500?
And don't think I'm saying this so I can play as human, colossi are much funner.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Cassus
Chaos Colossus Helper (Fireball class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Fireball class)


Posts : 29
Join date : 2009-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Mon May 11, 2009 10:52 pm

Quote :
Dear Cassus... How can a colossus know what and how to do when he can't even get close to the pillar?
They can. That's the important thing. If I was playing Colossus and "arrived" t0 find a mass of free human units surrounding me, my first act would be to say "Yay! Free XP!" My second would be to drop a Sphere or Rain or both on them. Once they'd fallen I would have enough energy to begin building up an army and advancing on outer pillars. If my allies are competent they will be doing the same things and we will probably reach the Well in evolved forms before the first reinforcements arrive. And that's assuming KJ doesn't help us at all.

Speaking of KJ... I won't. See Dj's post Smile. I will point out that I've never said he was balanced vs the Well, though.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dj0z
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 926
Join date : 2008-05-27

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Tue May 12, 2009 2:33 am

Well, cas, i once played as colossus vs a pro human (was Burn or Scorch, can't rememeber), and i had a hard time facing the rush. i came out of the fight with like 1/3 of my hp, and i didnt get to hit any orange unit during all of that.i didnt miss my chaos attacks, neither my jumps, but being surrounded y armored humans that die in 3 hits (while you need like 7 secs to land those 3 hits) with lines of archers shooting flaming arrows at yo head (flame damage is magical, = x3 vs colossi) is very far from easy.
The fact is that the humans, who were supposed to be under surprise attack, end up much more than prepared for an assault.
And they spawn an army and reach their max control in no time. this is what i must adress.

_________________

The bot's name is: TealHaze
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dj0zmaps.goodforum.net
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Tue May 12, 2009 6:41 am

Well I played as a human vs you like 1 month ago and you got a really hard time killing me lol.With the other's help. And you couldn't win! You were so close but the angels came before you.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dj0z
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 926
Join date : 2008-05-27

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Tue May 12, 2009 11:27 am

Must've been this game then.

_________________

The bot's name is: TealHaze
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dj0zmaps.goodforum.net
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Tue May 12, 2009 12:09 pm

Yeah when you were obserer and couldn't evolve happened too. The same thing.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dj0z
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 926
Join date : 2008-05-27

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Tue May 12, 2009 2:23 pm

uhm yea i think.. but since i couldnt evolve neither summon, not like it coulda been any different lols.

_________________

The bot's name is: TealHaze
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dj0zmaps.goodforum.net
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Tue May 12, 2009 9:46 pm

Seeing the whole map is a big + after all.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dj0z
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 926
Join date : 2008-05-27

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Wed May 13, 2009 5:52 am

Yea... but it's just like being a ghost: you can see eveything that is going on, but you can't do shit to prevent it.

_________________

The bot's name is: TealHaze
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://dj0zmaps.goodforum.net
Burning_Iegion
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
Chaos Colossus Helper (Colossus class)
avatar

Posts : 964
Join date : 2009-03-07
Age : 20

PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   Wed May 13, 2009 6:49 am

Hmm...
If you hadn't seen the remaining pillars you weren't gonna get to the well so fast :/
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Human Defenders   

Back to top Go down
 
Human Defenders
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Welcome to Dj0zMaps :: WARCRAFT III - THE FROZEN THRONE :: Polls zone-
Jump to: