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 AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports

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PostSubject: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:57 pm

I will put my thoughts and reports about Avatar below. I'm still somewhat new here so don't flame me saying you knew this bug already.
First thing first, about Hell Trucks in combination with Valkries, seems a bit imbalanced as there are little animal spawns around the non Navi protected hometrees and they cannot hit air units while transporting the loaded Hell Truck. Here's me getting 2 Mantis and 2 Valks in 29 mins, idk if this is quick, but I could've ended the game right there with some allied support.

"http://img828.imageshack.us/i/siegerush.gif/"

Imagine all four RDA players with this setup in 30 mins or so. 8 Mantis+8Valks, gg much? The ones who trucked should teampool their gold so everyone gets to even their productions.
Here's the game finish in 52 mins. I admit, the avatars aren't even decent but they did the right thing about massing riders. Note that we destroyed all the home trees except for that left center one.

"http://img842.imageshack.us/i/almostperfect.gif/"



Then we have the humans being able to harvest materials from trees. It happens when you right click on one of those wisps (avatar builder) with a worker while the wisp is harvestinig. Doesn't seem convenient and probable in multiplayer matches though. Note that the tree still takes damage but only to the slightest. This works for both the slash cutters and the normal corp workers.

"http://img691.imageshack.us/i/greenslashcutter.gif/"
I apologize if you have trouble looking over the big white EVALUATION MODE. I usualy don't take screenies and post them.



No screenie this time, but when I target a unit that is out of Big Bertha's range, it does not say "Target out of range". Instead it changes agro to a closer unit then fires. I doubt that should happen.



We have the repair bots working on buildings-under-construction. It continues to regen the hp even when I remove the worker. It does not construct as you cannot spacedrop onto a pad or attack from a tower. Therefore I can have a full hp spacepad that is 1% finished. Not much of a big deal but still a glitch.

Space Pad : "http://img843.imageshack.us/i/decoypad.gif/"
Dispersor: "http://img43.imageshack.us/i/decoydispersor.gif/"

That's it for now, going to sleep. CYA


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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:36 pm

Please use "url" tags, like i did for the first picture.
I tried "img" tags but it didn't work.

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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:34 am

man you'r version is under 0.35
look the new version 0.39
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:35 am

Tbh 2 mantises and 2 valks per corp doesn't always mean gg, from my experience. Eywa alone can handle 3 mantises and the valks do NO OR 10 PER SEC dmg to her, I've tried that too. And considering avatars can get really annoying cuz of the minimum atk range of the mantis which is 450... There's always hope Razz
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:53 am

Okay well i bothered pasting all links and saw the pics.
-Valkyrie + Hell Truck: believe it or not this is the first time i hear about this combo. And no i don't find it imba, maybe the environment just need more AA, and i will give it more AA.

-2 mantis + 2 valyries: first you need to make sure you weren't keeping all the unob for yourself, which would invalidate the case where all corps would do that.
Second, there's nothing wrong in Corps developing tactics and tricks like this one. Hell, that's all they're about. When you pull off these plans it always sounds abit impressive but hey, it took you time, money, imagination and organization, so you should get your reward for it.

-The "Corps can harvest from trees" bug: that is very slow and only possible in very precise circumstances, i believe it's a minor problem.

*Oh btw get Irfanview for TGA viewing and saving as whatever type of file you want. It's free and makes better pics than what you used here.*

-Bertha message: i had been suspecting such a thing but hadn't found out yet. Thanks for notifying, i'll code something to act as an error message.

-Repair bots: Yeah that looks odd... it's easy to fix so i guess i should?

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Last edited by Dj0z on Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:08 am

More AA is good, and I suggest putting the animal spawner closer to each non-protected deposit. Even the spawns out such as a few titans, a toruk, and a lot of banshees circling around each deposit. They can auto-engage the trucks and the valk when they touch the deposit.

You can pool gold and materials to you allies via F11 believe. Note that I had about 60k in gold when I hit 29 min. That means I can easily pool my gold to my allies. About materials, it shouldn't be a problem we if just keep dropping supplies and teampool if necessary.
I suppose you'll keep the pooling system intact.

@german100
I was playing 0.39j, the newest version at that time.

Note that all my "strategies" are only possible with an entire team of decent players, which is less probable at this stage. A fh full of pros will surely put up a great fight, but that's in the future.
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:29 pm

Animals will have territorial behaviours, and this kind of reactions will be included in. Not to mention Eywa can always Control a couple (0.40b) and attack directly, endlessly.
I'll also give it the ability to order all animals nearby to attack-move somewhere.

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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:27 pm

I've finished reading the article of the final battle in avatar from the wiki. For future references only.
http://james-camerons-avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Assault_on_the_Tree_of_Souls

I wanted to relate the map more closely to the movie. I read about Ikrans boarding RDA aircrafts, and Jake jumping off his toruk chugging a grenade into a Valkryie's air vent, causing it to fail catastrophically, then dropping back onto the toruk. Maybe we can imply that into the game. Giving Ikrans an ability to scare away the pilots, leaving the aircraft empty and uncontrollable. Or give Sully an ability to cast a high-damage nuke on vehicles via interact. Also about animals, hammerheads should have some sort of stampede damage when they run over most units. Something like an immolation would work.

There can also be modules containing the avatars' human body located in Hell's Gate, which are invulnable in to beginning. Then it turns vurnable with divine armour after a certain period or when the avatars are massively invading Hell's Gate.Since the module has divine armour, it will take a long time to destroy it. If the humans destroy it, the avatar hero shall be lost, no more revival. Avatars can neutralize this threat by having an ability or a unit that can pick up the module and bring it back to Eywa, which starts the conscious transfer. Avatars can only pick up its own module.

Then I thought of Eywa. She should be able to control all animals as in the movie RDA forces were overwhelmed by thousands of banshees, viperwolves, and other animals. I thought maybe Eywa can teleport all animals in an area to a single point, effectively creating a huge army. Then the animals can be commanded to attack any human units on sight. A few hammerheads won't stop a well-prepared RDA army, animals all over the planet attacking at once will.

Also there can be a sacrifical skill that gives counters. Each viperwolf gives 1, thanators give 2, banshees give 3, hammerheads give 7, and toruks give 10. The sacrificed unit will not respawn until Eywa uses the charges to cast a very power skill. Passively each charge increases mana regen.

I also thought about last stands on the Eywa Shrine where the Tree of Souls lie. Maybe Eywa can cast a spell giving all units nearby invurnability, except for herself. This will cost a certain % of her max hp and requires channeling. Not that imba considering the RDA forces have only one target left, and the target is taking constant damage. It basically means giving the avatars a final boost before losing to a barrage of attacks from the RDA.
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:49 pm

Just saying all of these suggestions have been deeply analyzed and they contribute to the brainstorm for Avatar's upcoming improvements.

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PostSubject: RDA stuff.   Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:17 am

Ight I had a notepad with WC3 on windows mode, this post shoud've been finished a while ago, but I accidently erased all my texts and I did not save it Sad . Long story short this is what I remembered, only RDA stuff below:


Tooltips:

Spacepad: Missing tooltip for Squad spacedrop. Currently shows Workers, Materials, and $$

ISV Spacedrop: Scrolling icon shows Squad -> Workers -> Materials -> $ -> Squad...

Hero Skills: Simplify the cooldowns/effects. Ex. Instead of 5% (+5% per level), just put 5%, 10%, 15%, etc.


Hotkeys:

Hotkey for rocket troopers in barracks (c) does not work.

Hotkeys for all units in Metal Foundry different than ones in raxes, not a bug but causes confusion.

Hell Truck: D for both Deliver Unob and Self Destruct. S.D has priority.

Vehicle Transports: D for both Load and Self Destruct. Load has priority.


AMPs:

RDA heroes unlearn their skills except for blender upon entering an AMP suit.

RDA heroes change their names upon enering an AMP suit.

AMP Medics are able to powerbuild with their "Repair" skill.

Self Destructed AMPs do not recall resources via the unob-upgrade.


Infoboxes:

Infobox missing for AMP Rkts, regular Rkts, AMP F.bats, regular F.bats, Hell Truck, and APC. Note that there are infoboxes for both AMP and regular medics/privates.


Other:

Resource gains, better off using + instead of - , especially with Hell Truck deliveries.

When you powerbuild a rax, ADB or A.Bay, one builder automatically loads into the specific building when finished. (Workers for raxes/ADBs and Slash Cutters for Bays)

You lose control of any unit that you command to drop gear, you must re-click the units or issue the idle worker command (F8 I believe)
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:16 pm

I will answer all this in details when i have the editor open.
I'm glad to see there are things i didn't know about though Smile

One thing though:
Spacepad: Missing tooltip for Squad spacedrop. Currently shows Workers, Materials, and $$

ISV Spacedrop: Scrolling icon shows Squad -> Workers -> Materials -> $ -> Squad...


1st line) No idea what you meant.. I'm pretty sure the tooltip for dropping squad is there.. assuming you meant ISV, cuz spacepad itself has no active abils.
2nd line) What's wrong with that?

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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:13 pm

1) First line as meaning the tooltip of Spacepad for drones, slash cutters, and corp workers in the build menu.

2) There are two Squads? Also the last Squad ends with "..."
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:02 pm

2)
No it means that they're cycling ^^
As in, after $ comes squad again and the "..." means "and so on".
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:03 pm

I see, now that's out of the way, gota work on avatars. Sleep

Oh and btw my games in singleplayer still crash when I truck in the 8th depo, I'm sure about that unless I alt-q-x'd or alt-f4'd.

Another thing, about the animal agros and its relation with global control. When I gained control of all animals, I am not the only one setting commands; animals still move around unless I issue them to hold position. The most important part of this is that weak units (viperwolves, banshees, thanators) tend to avoid the battle and run away from the target when being attacked or issued to attack a unit or building, they then return, attack once or cancel its attack animation, run away, repeat. When I'm commanding 12 viperwolves to raid the RDA base, they were just swinging all over the place without attacking, It takes too much micro to keep the agro on while avoiding titano/toruk deaths and casting spells from swarm to thunder to fury.

IDK if the agro can be controlled or changed when Eywa casts the global control, issue global attack order with maximum agro may help. Long story short weak units are technically meat and targets for RDA units without the ability to fight back.


Last thing for now, got a bug I found online. Toruks are unable to hit drones. Idk why, but they fly low, attack animation finishes, but the drones didn't lose any hp. I believe they wer not burrowed since I had no atokins around nor did the game end.
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:01 pm

Ya a game crashed for me today too, but it didn't show fatal error and was like 10 secs after I took 8th unob (weirdo).
And that animal thing is animal behavior which I guess Dj coded so it should be fixable. Though that would prevent their running when corps/avatars attack them. You see, it's usually an advantage so I dunno if Dj's gonna agree to remove that when Eywa takes control. I guess we'll have to wait & see Razz
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:39 am

Faces wrote:
Ight I had a notepad with WC3 on windows mode, this post shoud've been finished a while ago, but I accidently erased all my texts and I did not save it Sad . Long story short this is what I remembered, only RDA stuff below:


Tooltips:

Spacepad: Missing tooltip for Squad spacedrop. Currently shows Workers, Materials, and $$

ISV Spacedrop: Scrolling icon shows Squad -> Workers -> Materials -> $ -> Squad...

Hero Skills: Simplify the cooldowns/effects. Ex. Instead of 5% (+5% per level), just put 5%, 10%, 15%, etc.


Hotkeys:

Hotkey for rocket troopers in barracks (c) does not work.

Hotkeys for all units in Metal Foundry different than ones in raxes, not a bug but causes confusion.

Hell Truck: D for both Deliver Unob and Self Destruct. S.D has priority.

Vehicle Transports: D for both Load and Self Destruct. Load has priority.


AMPs:

RDA heroes unlearn their skills except for blender upon entering an AMP suit.

RDA heroes change their names upon enering an AMP suit.

AMP Medics are able to powerbuild with their "Repair" skill.

Self Destructed AMPs do not recall resources via the unob-upgrade.


Infoboxes:

Infobox missing for AMP Rkts, regular Rkts, AMP F.bats, regular F.bats, Hell Truck, and APC. Note that there are infoboxes for both AMP and regular medics/privates.


Other:

Resource gains, better off using + instead of - , especially with Hell Truck deliveries.

When you powerbuild a rax, ADB or A.Bay, one builder automatically loads into the specific building when finished. (Workers for raxes/ADBs and Slash Cutters for Bays)

You lose control of any unit that you command to drop gear, you must re-click the units or issue the idle worker command (F8 I believe)

===So:
Space Pad: modified tooltip.

Space drop: made more explicit

Hero skills: nah that takes way too much time, while i can copy-paste the way i write it now in all fields of the editor at each update.

Rest: hmm this is gonna be long... i guess i'll summon changelog 0.46 as my answer.

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PostSubject: Avatars vers 0.48   Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:50 pm

Ight able to work with avatars in 0.48, note that I don't look for grammatical mistakes with plural "s" and so on. Here are my notes:

Update Watcher tooltip- Since it can no longer be garrisoned, remove that part of the tooltip.

Update Shaman tooltip- No longer a melee character.

Dryad tooltip- Compared to Warriors and Huntresses, For Dryads, it says "made in 50 seconds" compared to the other two: "Training Time: 50 seconds."

Rider system messes up the two-hander cap. I have more 3 two-handers while riding if I interact with the specific unit/s. Applies to all ridable animals.

When you become a leader, your hometree becomes an altar, therefore you can revive your hero @ the hometree instead of using the spirit. You can mass spirits as invulnable scouts.

You have to apply for a Na'vi warlord @ another hometree. In this version you shouldn't hog 2/3 bonus clans just for yourself. I sugest 1 clan/hometree max per avatar marine.

Missing Na'vi term for Banshee. Should be "Train an Ikran/Banshee" instead of "Train a Banshee"

Tip says "Persuasion now works on big animals" @ 100 knowledge, instead of 80, it still works @ 80 understanding. Unless you want to change that to 100.

Hunter's Lodge tooltip- I don't remember for sure but I think you put down train warriors and hunters instead of huntresses. Also I think you missed the Dryads. I'm not 100% sure, prove me wrong.

Other suggestions:

Since it is impossible to penetrate and activate the RDA spawn powerstones if the RDA are experts, with radars scattered all around and expansions covering all around the stones, that means no quake, no wrath, and no global control. I think you should add an ability that cause the Ato to cling onto another unit, (avatars, other animals) during this time the Ato cannot move, and can disembark the host whenever, this means avatars/animals can babysit a seed all the way to the target powerstone.

Give hometree an ability that deals dps to nearby units when destroyed, like a mega-martyr, that lasts about 30-45 seconds dealing high damage, slows, and decreases amour. This may slow down a rush and/or desparate unob miners.

Small bonuses from all types of trees upon discovering. Ex. Small aoe smoke around the avatar upon cast. (puffbulb) Increased sight range for a certain period.(Zigzag) Reduces amour to whoever the avatar hits. (Episoth) A single-target heal. (Gnared) Increased damage/amour. ("Tonic"?/Palm) ETC. I don't think it's imbalanced since you need to split your discovers enough so that you get enough knowledge for all 4 subjects, not just flora.

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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:58 pm

Idk about rules with double posting here, so NVM my d.p.

First of all, airdrone mining is a bit O.P. They are aerial units, draw little agro, meaning they can mine depos in enemy territory with little warning. They seem way more effective than the old valktrucking since titanos and thanators cannot touch them. Most importantly,I believe that Eywa and Avatars do not have sight over the 4 unprotected depos, therefore you can "ninja" the depos without people noticing it. You can then use the airdrones to kamikaze or sneak in a bertha somewhere once they finish up with the 8th depo.

About avatars able to become Warlords for multiple hometrees, once you have 80 understanding, you can interact with multiple hometrees and gain all its bonuses and control, I think it's better to keep one clan per avatar.

About Big Bertha auto-acquiring targets. It gets quite frustrating when you want to target Eywa but it unleashes its first shell on a hometree/animal, that draws a bit too much attention and you'd lose the surprise element.

That's it for now, I'd want to talk to you (Dj0z) on Bnet sometime, send me a PM when you're gona betatest.
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:28 am

Currently making 0.49 taking in account these posts above and the most recent feedback.

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PostSubject: Animal and Flora   Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:42 am

Old bug I found on 0.43, I remember reporting it but there were no problems with the codes I believe. I don't think this was fixed during 0.49 or so, heres a screenshot:

Note that the persuasion have nothing to do with the bug, I interacted with a vwolf and then casted persuasion on that titano after.


[img][/img]
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PostSubject: Re: AVATAR- Faces' thoughts and reports   Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:02 pm

Yea that happens quite often...
Happens with Na'vi too... Weird
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