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 My Suggestions for the Avatar map

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kykeka



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PostSubject: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:54 pm

I know that in the movie the avatars wanted to help the na'vi but couldn't you make it so at the end of the human quest line or something you get the chance to ally them again? Not all of us wish to be tree-huggers but we are forced to because of the unfair attribute system this map uses which gives vast advantages to those who help nature. If you believe that then the R.D.A would be imbalanced you could always make the na'vi actually do something like attack R.D.A bases, I don't mean to appear rude but I hate the lack of choice in this matter Crying or Very sad


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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:32 pm

That's being discussed as far as I know...From now on in a thread xP
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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:42 am

Quote Trudy: "We're going up against gunships with bows and arrows."

Currently the Na'vi isnt gona make much difference infront of AMPs and heavy air-supports. There is a thread for Na'vi unit improvements in this same section, post your thoughts there. In the movie there were thousands of Na'vi against about 2 Valks? 12 Scorpions, and some AMP/regular units, we can't have thousands of units so we must buff the Na'vis, but currently the Na'vis are dead meat infront of a good defence.

The problem with allying the humans is because it is possible to have a all avatars staying with the RDA, making a 8v1. (Eywa) This is always a possibility and game-ruining. Yes RDA is imbalanced in a decent player's hand, but the Avatar is too imbalanced under a pro's hand.

But the best RDAs vs the best Avatars+ the best Eywa= RDA win ez. Tbh they don't need the avatars' help.

And no you don't have to join Na'vi and war RDA but you'll be stuck @ lvl 1 and have most of your skills locked.

Discussed elsewhere and I'll put what I remember below:

RDA gains control of the human modules for the avatars, they become vurnable when an event happens. Ex. Avatars go rogue, war on Na'vi, humans with less than 10 units, etc.

Avatars stay neutral with humans at all times until RDA wars the Na'vi or when they choose to backstab the humans.

There are few decent players since this map is still in beta stage, we'll think about balancing when we play a fh game with all pros.

EDIT: The Na'vi improvement thread is in Betatesting zone, not here in Avatar zone


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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:05 am

kykeka wrote:
I know that in the movie the avatars wanted to help the na'vi but couldn't you make it so at the end of the human quest line or something you get the chance to ally them again? Not all of us wish to be tree-huggers but we are forced to because of the unfair attribute system this map uses which gives vast advantages to those who help nature. If you believe that then the R.D.A would be imbalanced you could always make the na'vi actually do something like attack R.D.A bases, I don't mean to appear rude but I hate the lack of choice in this matter Crying or Very sad

It aint "vast advantages" to those who help nature, it's just the regular things any avatar should get. The point in locking everything before you rebel is making it clear that you already chose your team when you were in gamelobby and went team 2...
I will be adding an Avatar hero for Corps alongside the other 2 existing ones, with abilities fitting the RDA style ofc. Doesn't that solve the issue?

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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:15 am

^

I suppose the RDA avatars are way weaker than team 2, maybe you can add the human modules for the RDA Avatars and can therefore be destroyed by Eywa with lightnings. With good enough micro it can be a 8v5. 4 RDA commander/security leader with 4 RDA avatars vs 4 avatar marines with Eywa.
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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:43 am

^
What i meant by "alongside" the existing Corp heroes, is that it would be an available choice. The same way you could pick "Commander", you could pick "Avatar", or "Security Leader".

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kykeka



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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:00 pm

that wouldn't exactly fix the issue because what I'm talking about is giving avatar players the choice to join the Na'vi or not, I mean a logical choice not one where you are significantly underpowered because you choose not to help the Na'vi. My idea like I mentioned was possibly giving maybe the first avatar player who finishes the entire human quest tree the choice, I just hate that the only way for your avatar to learn anything is to betray the R.D.A. Clearly people are capable of learning about plants and animals without the help of a talking tree. And the R.D.A hero choices are clear cut human ones and it wouldn't exactly make sense if the R.D.A all had avatars yet they weren't on the avatar team which would confuse many people. If you want to think about extra heroes for humans maybe try a scientist one with useful defensive abilities or something, a builder hero would actually be interesting too. EDIT: I changed the name of this thread because of me going off topic Smile
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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:33 pm

^
This causes extreme balance issues since humans can easily overpower Eywa and Na'vi even without any help from avatars. Now with avatars' help, there would be no way for rogue avatars to defeat the humans and any enemy avatars, if team 2 gets to choose, I think it could break the game, Eywa demands the support of all 4 avatars to beat successful RDA players.

And btw what does "first avatar player who finishes human quest tree" mean? I suppose you are setting a cap of 1 avatar that can ally the humans?

If you're trying to relate the game to real world logic and reality, I must say that it is a game, logic and choices go after gameplay and balance. It is not logical to only have a 40 food cap per human, it is not logical to turn invisible via secret passage and lightblender, we don't see that in the movie but Dj0z put this in for balance issues; heroes should have a survival/escape technique, and humans must have limited amount of heavy machineries that can rip through those trees and Pandoran Natives. Avatars war the humans because the humans would get an easy win without extreme avatar harassment and offense. I think it is quite competitve and balanced atm. Feel free to argue back.

@Dj0z
I don't suggest having an avatar as a main hero for RDA. Humans are after all, humans. I still stick with my thought of weaker avatars with vurnable human modules, require a human "sacrifice" or so-called test subjects, as drivers for the avatar bodies. They cost a lot but has weaker but simular skills as avatar marines.


I'll wait for someone to post a poll @ the poll section regarding this issue, we'll figure this thing out.

Off topic: YAY school is starting for me very soon, and already started for most of us here. Education+Work> WC3 Mapmaking any day. As I said many times, current discussion shall be used as future reference.

KK thnx bai.
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kykeka



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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:48 pm

in response to your balance issue argument refer to my first post when I said to make the na'vi actually do something, right now they sort of just sit around a tree and don't do much

and about the logic true, in the movie they didn't take much logic into account either and if you believe my avatar idea would ruin the game by all means make Eywa stronger or make some sort of plant that can attack humans that's why it's a beta, so you can make changes to the game.

And no adding an R.D.A avatar hero would not solve the issue
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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:48 pm

I could make that poll but first I gotta read all this text... and I got americanized so I'm quite lazy...
Could you describe it in a PM?.... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: My Suggestions for the Avatar map   Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:18 pm


IF the Na'vi should autoattack RDA @ Hell's Gate or elsewhere, trees must be removed to increase space and they must have resources to continue building. And it means that the Na'vi are enemies of the RDA right in the beginning, therefore enemies of avatars, I'm not sure about that but it'd be wierd if the Na'vis are attacking the humans and the avatars are standing there watching, and all of them must war the Na'vi making a 8v1.

On the other side the Na'vi units are really weak and takes a long time to build. From 45 seconds per huntress to 120 seconds per banshee rider, and 8 hometrees in total. They all have small/medium amour I believe, therefore they are nothing against a few well placed sentries and/or dispersors. They're free exp for RDA heroes. It's either newbie humans get totally overwhelmed or decent humans dominate and counterattack after an easy defense.

And again, submit your thoughts of how to improve Na'vi units @ Dj0z's thread at the Beta Testing Zone section.
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